Teacher Interview
Eric Hudspith is the head of the Music Department at Alexander Mackenzie High School. He runs the music portion of the Arts Program and his main focus at the moment is directed towards strings and band classes. The Program has three showcases each year ranging from vocal ensembles to orchestra to symphonic band. Eric also directs the pit orchestra for the school’s yearly musical.
As he is an influential teacher that has helped me realize my love for music and my passion to continue, I asked him how his journey with music started in which he replied, “I liked music in high school and when high school ended I went into a different career and didn’t really pursue it. When I decided to back into university, I figured I’d try music again and really really really started to love it and joined as many bands and orchestras that I could.” I found it interesting how Eric enjoyed music a lot in high school but didn’t pursue it right away after high school. Therefore I asked him if that other career limited his thought of pursuing music in which he replied, “I think I didn’t really know what I wanted when I finished high school, so I just thought music was a fun thing in high school but I’m going to move on to different things. The most important thing to me at the time was making a lot of money and so I thought music wasn’t going to help me with that. A few years later I missed it so I went back.” It was very humble to know that someone I looked up to went through somewhat of the same struggles as me thinking that we can’t have a successful music career that supports us for years to come. Since Eric is an influential teacher that has supported me through out my time in high school I then wanted to know if a past teacher of his influenced him to which he replied, “The teacher that actually influenced me was in junior high named Mrs. Miller, so that was a school that had grades 7, 8, and 9, and she was amazing and totally turned me on to music. That’s kind of the culture of music that I try to emulate in this department. There was a whole group of us that came and practiced everyday at lunch. In high school it wasn’t quite the same, you played in your ensemble and then you went home so it wasn’t the same social aspect.” I was curious by the term ‘culture’ that Eric used to describe the atmosphere of the class so I asked him to give me an example of that to which he replied, “So when I started this program, I didn’t want students to just take a class and go home. I really wanted them to be a part of a music family. That’s why we started banquets, social events, and extra stuff we do as well as just playing in an ensemble because I think that’s what makes people come back. A lot of people turn out to be really great on their instrument but majority of people are ok at their instruments but will never go anywhere with it. Therefore, having them take the course over and over again, I think a huge part of it is the social aspect and feeling like they belong.” Hearing this made me think of “Repositioning ‘the elements’: How students talk about music” written by Rose and Countryman about how the use of the elements prevented students from re-enrolling into the class next year. Maybe they stopped taking music because there wasn’t that social aspect that made everyone feel like they belonged.
After getting to the understanding of how Eric got to be where he is now, I wanted to understand his philosophy for teaching. To start the conversation I initially asked what his definition of teaching is in which he replied, “I don’t know if I have a definition but it would relate to giving experiences more than telling people things. What I don’t think teaching is, is that it is my job to give you information. I think my job is more to give you the experiences to find that information on your own and creating opportunities where you can grow in the direction that I want you to go in without lecturing you about here is the information that I want you to know and go memorize it for a test.” The idea of providing experiences over just giving the information is a strong tool that has helped me excel as a student and is something that I believe in using as a future educator. I was curious as to if providing the experiences was the main driven force for Eric’s reason to teach in which he replied, “I think I teach because I want to have people love music. Not necessarily love playing it but look at music from a different point of view. I feel that people who leave this music department leave never really thinking about music the same way, like whether it’s how they play or listen to it. They’ll never kind of forget the overall experience and the impact that music can have on you.” Thinking back to a previous conversation about Eric’s influential teacher Mrs. Miller, I was curious to know whether Eric adapted the same teaching methods as her in which he replied, “I think so, it is hard to compare because that was grade 7, 8, 9 and I teach older students. I think I took her ability to motivate us even though none of us really wanted to take music and we all had to but by the end everybody loved it. She did practice journals, which I take from her and opening the music room at lunch everyday I took from her, which was not something available for me in high school. There are definitely aspects of what she did but I think all of us are a product of everybody we worked with. If I think back to my influences, it’s almost negative influences that are almost better, like the people I don’t want to be like as supposed to people I am following because I want to be like them. That for me has been more influential than the people I want to be like.” It was interesting to know that negative factors have more influence on us because since we’ve had those bad experiences we don’t want to replicate that as educators. Previously being a student with more advantages, I wanted to know if Eric’s teaching style changed to those who had more advantages, such as private lessons, in which re replied, “I think I teach the whole class the same. I think I would be more likely to say to someone who took private lessons it is your responsibility to ask to go to a practice room and practice that separately rather than somehow trying to bring up the rest of the class to you. I try to use the best students in the class to help tutor the more average students, especially in grade 9, but I would say that I teach more to the average student than the advanced.” Learning about how educators should help students create their own musical identity, I was curious as to how Eric approached this to which he replied, “I don’t know if I do and I don’t know if that makes sense in an ensemble situation because there are so much that we do with big ensembles that I don’t really think you want everybody to have their own musical identity. I guess when we get into the arts class and they are working on solos and stuff that gives them the opportunity to start playing with their own musical identity but I’m not sure that is something I actually cultivate.” It was interesting to hear that a musical identity can be limited in the ensemble sense because everyone can have different ideas and they might clash together musically. When Eric mentioned the solos that are done in the arts class I was interested in knowing about what he thought creativity in the classroom looked like in which he replied, “In my department, I don’t think we do much creativity. Maybe a little bit when we talk about improvising in jazz but because we are so fixated in playing the notes as written I don’t know if we do so much creativity. I think that is partially because I am not particularly creative. I am more of a left-brain musician meaning I see things black and white. I guess there is opportunity for creativity in the classroom but students would have to push for it. There is opportunity to arrange for orchestra or the Garage Band projects that show creativity but for the average band student there isn’t much room for it.” It is an interesting perspective of creativity because from my past years of attending that music program I felt like there was a bit of creativity in the classroom. Therefore it is interesting how a teacher’s view of creativity can be different from students. I was then curious as to if the curriculum limited creativity in the classroom to which he replied, “The curriculum doesn’t really limit it. I think what really limits it is if you have 34 people in a classroom how can they all be creative at the same time? It’s not really practical especially if they all have instruments. I think practicality stifles creativity. The curriculum nowhere says that you have to be super creative but it does say that you have to learn certain theory things. Therefore I think in some ways it limits it but it is more about the personality of the person teaching it.” Eric continued to explain how music education follows the curriculum, “All of us use the curriculum as a guide in music especially and we don’t really check every box. In other departments it is different because lets say in math if you don’t check off every box in grade 9 then everyone fails in grade 10. It doesn’t really matter for music because you will still turn out as great musicians.” It was interesting to know that the curriculum doesn’t restrict the content or way you teach.
I was then curious as to what Eric thought the most challenging part of teaching was in which he replied, “I think psychologically it’s the fact that for your entire life you are attached to bells and timelines. For most people when they finish high school that’s it they don’t really have to ever worry about its 10:00 I have to be at a certain place. Even after so many years I find that stifling. If it is a beautiful day outside, most people could have the option to go outside or go for a walk and clear my head. With teaching you don’t really have that, you are more like a factory worker in that way. Another difficult part is that the Ministry of Education keeps changing things and coming up with new ways to approach teaching. However they do it for a little while and then give up on it and when you have been there a while you notice that they bring up the same things again. That continual push to keep trying things without seeing if they will work or make a difference is frustrating.” The comparison that Eric makes between teaching and a factory worker is something I would have never thought of. I was curious as to if what Eric said about the Ministry of Education applied to only music education or all subjects in general to which he replied, “It’s any subject.” It was interesting to know how the Ministry of Educations involvement impacted the way educators taught so I continued by asking how Eric overcame that conflict in which he replied, “For a lot of teachers what they do is close the door and say I am going to teach the way I am teaching anyway regardless of what the principal says. What I think I try to do is take the aspects that work for me out of what they give us to do and try to change things as I go but I don’t jump whole hearted into every new thing.” It is good to know as a future educator that you do have somewhat of an opinion on how you teach regardless of others opinions. I was then curious to know what was the biggest lesson he wanted students to leave with, music related and not, in which he replied, “I guess not music related might be that hard work and effort pays off because music is one of the places where you can work hard and actually succeed even though maybe you are not particularly talented or maybe you think you weren’t good. A lot of people who leave the program saying I couldn’t read a single note in grade 8 and now I can do all this great stuff. The music related one is the thing I keep saying over and over again [fond memories of music and thinking about it in a different way].” I think that those lessons are something that I left with when I graduated from the program and still believe in now. Lastly I asked if he had any questions for me in which he replied, “I don’t think so.”
This interview was every interesting because hearing Eric’s responses made me reflect on how I would answer the questions and I determined that I would have similar responses. It is interesting how an influential teacher or factor really guides the way you think and how you want to carry things out in the future. Despite the similarity, there are differences and those differences shape me into my own identity as an educator.
As he is an influential teacher that has helped me realize my love for music and my passion to continue, I asked him how his journey with music started in which he replied, “I liked music in high school and when high school ended I went into a different career and didn’t really pursue it. When I decided to back into university, I figured I’d try music again and really really really started to love it and joined as many bands and orchestras that I could.” I found it interesting how Eric enjoyed music a lot in high school but didn’t pursue it right away after high school. Therefore I asked him if that other career limited his thought of pursuing music in which he replied, “I think I didn’t really know what I wanted when I finished high school, so I just thought music was a fun thing in high school but I’m going to move on to different things. The most important thing to me at the time was making a lot of money and so I thought music wasn’t going to help me with that. A few years later I missed it so I went back.” It was very humble to know that someone I looked up to went through somewhat of the same struggles as me thinking that we can’t have a successful music career that supports us for years to come. Since Eric is an influential teacher that has supported me through out my time in high school I then wanted to know if a past teacher of his influenced him to which he replied, “The teacher that actually influenced me was in junior high named Mrs. Miller, so that was a school that had grades 7, 8, and 9, and she was amazing and totally turned me on to music. That’s kind of the culture of music that I try to emulate in this department. There was a whole group of us that came and practiced everyday at lunch. In high school it wasn’t quite the same, you played in your ensemble and then you went home so it wasn’t the same social aspect.” I was curious by the term ‘culture’ that Eric used to describe the atmosphere of the class so I asked him to give me an example of that to which he replied, “So when I started this program, I didn’t want students to just take a class and go home. I really wanted them to be a part of a music family. That’s why we started banquets, social events, and extra stuff we do as well as just playing in an ensemble because I think that’s what makes people come back. A lot of people turn out to be really great on their instrument but majority of people are ok at their instruments but will never go anywhere with it. Therefore, having them take the course over and over again, I think a huge part of it is the social aspect and feeling like they belong.” Hearing this made me think of “Repositioning ‘the elements’: How students talk about music” written by Rose and Countryman about how the use of the elements prevented students from re-enrolling into the class next year. Maybe they stopped taking music because there wasn’t that social aspect that made everyone feel like they belonged.
After getting to the understanding of how Eric got to be where he is now, I wanted to understand his philosophy for teaching. To start the conversation I initially asked what his definition of teaching is in which he replied, “I don’t know if I have a definition but it would relate to giving experiences more than telling people things. What I don’t think teaching is, is that it is my job to give you information. I think my job is more to give you the experiences to find that information on your own and creating opportunities where you can grow in the direction that I want you to go in without lecturing you about here is the information that I want you to know and go memorize it for a test.” The idea of providing experiences over just giving the information is a strong tool that has helped me excel as a student and is something that I believe in using as a future educator. I was curious as to if providing the experiences was the main driven force for Eric’s reason to teach in which he replied, “I think I teach because I want to have people love music. Not necessarily love playing it but look at music from a different point of view. I feel that people who leave this music department leave never really thinking about music the same way, like whether it’s how they play or listen to it. They’ll never kind of forget the overall experience and the impact that music can have on you.” Thinking back to a previous conversation about Eric’s influential teacher Mrs. Miller, I was curious to know whether Eric adapted the same teaching methods as her in which he replied, “I think so, it is hard to compare because that was grade 7, 8, 9 and I teach older students. I think I took her ability to motivate us even though none of us really wanted to take music and we all had to but by the end everybody loved it. She did practice journals, which I take from her and opening the music room at lunch everyday I took from her, which was not something available for me in high school. There are definitely aspects of what she did but I think all of us are a product of everybody we worked with. If I think back to my influences, it’s almost negative influences that are almost better, like the people I don’t want to be like as supposed to people I am following because I want to be like them. That for me has been more influential than the people I want to be like.” It was interesting to know that negative factors have more influence on us because since we’ve had those bad experiences we don’t want to replicate that as educators. Previously being a student with more advantages, I wanted to know if Eric’s teaching style changed to those who had more advantages, such as private lessons, in which re replied, “I think I teach the whole class the same. I think I would be more likely to say to someone who took private lessons it is your responsibility to ask to go to a practice room and practice that separately rather than somehow trying to bring up the rest of the class to you. I try to use the best students in the class to help tutor the more average students, especially in grade 9, but I would say that I teach more to the average student than the advanced.” Learning about how educators should help students create their own musical identity, I was curious as to how Eric approached this to which he replied, “I don’t know if I do and I don’t know if that makes sense in an ensemble situation because there are so much that we do with big ensembles that I don’t really think you want everybody to have their own musical identity. I guess when we get into the arts class and they are working on solos and stuff that gives them the opportunity to start playing with their own musical identity but I’m not sure that is something I actually cultivate.” It was interesting to hear that a musical identity can be limited in the ensemble sense because everyone can have different ideas and they might clash together musically. When Eric mentioned the solos that are done in the arts class I was interested in knowing about what he thought creativity in the classroom looked like in which he replied, “In my department, I don’t think we do much creativity. Maybe a little bit when we talk about improvising in jazz but because we are so fixated in playing the notes as written I don’t know if we do so much creativity. I think that is partially because I am not particularly creative. I am more of a left-brain musician meaning I see things black and white. I guess there is opportunity for creativity in the classroom but students would have to push for it. There is opportunity to arrange for orchestra or the Garage Band projects that show creativity but for the average band student there isn’t much room for it.” It is an interesting perspective of creativity because from my past years of attending that music program I felt like there was a bit of creativity in the classroom. Therefore it is interesting how a teacher’s view of creativity can be different from students. I was then curious as to if the curriculum limited creativity in the classroom to which he replied, “The curriculum doesn’t really limit it. I think what really limits it is if you have 34 people in a classroom how can they all be creative at the same time? It’s not really practical especially if they all have instruments. I think practicality stifles creativity. The curriculum nowhere says that you have to be super creative but it does say that you have to learn certain theory things. Therefore I think in some ways it limits it but it is more about the personality of the person teaching it.” Eric continued to explain how music education follows the curriculum, “All of us use the curriculum as a guide in music especially and we don’t really check every box. In other departments it is different because lets say in math if you don’t check off every box in grade 9 then everyone fails in grade 10. It doesn’t really matter for music because you will still turn out as great musicians.” It was interesting to know that the curriculum doesn’t restrict the content or way you teach.
I was then curious as to what Eric thought the most challenging part of teaching was in which he replied, “I think psychologically it’s the fact that for your entire life you are attached to bells and timelines. For most people when they finish high school that’s it they don’t really have to ever worry about its 10:00 I have to be at a certain place. Even after so many years I find that stifling. If it is a beautiful day outside, most people could have the option to go outside or go for a walk and clear my head. With teaching you don’t really have that, you are more like a factory worker in that way. Another difficult part is that the Ministry of Education keeps changing things and coming up with new ways to approach teaching. However they do it for a little while and then give up on it and when you have been there a while you notice that they bring up the same things again. That continual push to keep trying things without seeing if they will work or make a difference is frustrating.” The comparison that Eric makes between teaching and a factory worker is something I would have never thought of. I was curious as to if what Eric said about the Ministry of Education applied to only music education or all subjects in general to which he replied, “It’s any subject.” It was interesting to know how the Ministry of Educations involvement impacted the way educators taught so I continued by asking how Eric overcame that conflict in which he replied, “For a lot of teachers what they do is close the door and say I am going to teach the way I am teaching anyway regardless of what the principal says. What I think I try to do is take the aspects that work for me out of what they give us to do and try to change things as I go but I don’t jump whole hearted into every new thing.” It is good to know as a future educator that you do have somewhat of an opinion on how you teach regardless of others opinions. I was then curious to know what was the biggest lesson he wanted students to leave with, music related and not, in which he replied, “I guess not music related might be that hard work and effort pays off because music is one of the places where you can work hard and actually succeed even though maybe you are not particularly talented or maybe you think you weren’t good. A lot of people who leave the program saying I couldn’t read a single note in grade 8 and now I can do all this great stuff. The music related one is the thing I keep saying over and over again [fond memories of music and thinking about it in a different way].” I think that those lessons are something that I left with when I graduated from the program and still believe in now. Lastly I asked if he had any questions for me in which he replied, “I don’t think so.”
This interview was every interesting because hearing Eric’s responses made me reflect on how I would answer the questions and I determined that I would have similar responses. It is interesting how an influential teacher or factor really guides the way you think and how you want to carry things out in the future. Despite the similarity, there are differences and those differences shape me into my own identity as an educator.
Student Interviews
Emily Young, Jessica Bond, and Sam Wagter are all first year university students who have graduated from a music education experience and have chosen to pursue different paths. I have had the chance over the four years of my music education to personally get to know Emily and Jessica and experience the same music program with them. This year, I have been given the chance to get to know Sam through my current place of residence. All three of them are in various programs at different universities such as Biological Science at Guelph University, Arts and Humanities at Carleton University, and Visual Arts and Western University.
To start off the conversation, I was curious to know how their music journey started and how it progressed to where they are today. The responses I received were sporadic as some were first exposed to music in elementary school and others were forced to start taking piano lessons at a young age. However, Jessica responded by saying, “It started when I was about two and my great grandmother used to teach me piano. When I was about six or seven I started taking piano lessons and then in school I joined the band and played saxophone up until grade 10. Then I switched schools to Alexander Mackenzie and I then picked up the cello and from there started the bass.” Sam had a similar story in which she changed around instruments as well from piano to bass clarinet to participating in musical theatre productions. I was then curious to know why they had switched instruments to which Jessica replied, “I have always wanted to play the cello there is just something about it that resonates I guess. When I came to Alexander Mackenzie I realized they had a strings program and I asked our teacher if I could try it out and I just fell in love with it.” Sam also switched instruments and disciplines (from instrumental music to musical theatre) so when asked the same question she replied, “I started playing bass clarinet in grade 8 and fell in love with that instrument and shortly after I quit piano because it wasn’t for me. My dad always sings in the kitchen when he is cooking and stuff so I always grew up with him singing. When I was going into Grade 9 I was playing video games with my friend Chris on Skype and was playing music and singing. He then asked me if I wanted to singing for his piano recital and I was like sure. That was the first time I had performed in front of anyone and it was horrible but I just loved performing. Musical theatre was a way for me to perform and have a spotlight because in a band you don’t have that spotlight.” The idea of the correlation between a spotlight and band intrigued me so I asked Sam to dwell on that a bit and explain why she thought that was an occurrence to which she replied, “It is just because there are so many and when you play together people don’t pick out the different instruments and their parts. I feel like I get more of a spotlight when I am the only one on the stage singing a solo with a literal spotlight on me rather than when I am in a band playing the bass line to Africa by Toto.” I had never considered the idea of a spotlight in correlation with an ensemble so it was interesting to hear Sam’s thoughts on that. After learning about their passion for music and the journey they took with that passion I was curious to know why they had chosen a different path. They all had various answers some including that music was a passionate hobby but not their true passion, others saying that they weren’t at the level that the program required, and others saying mainly the audition process but they always knew that they wanted to go into a different discipline. It was very interesting to know the limitations of what steered people who had a passion for music away from pursuing it. I found it especially interesting hearing that Jessica wanted to pursue music but felt restricted because she wasn’t at the piano level that the program wanted. Through private conversations with her, she has expressed her desire to take music courses at her current university but they are restricted to those who are in the music program. I was then curious to know if any of them were interested in pursuing education to which I found that Emily and Sam had some interest in teaching within the discipline that they are currently studying. I was curious to know whether they had an influential teacher that influenced them to consider pursuing education to which Emily replied, “We have had many of the same teachers throughout high school. You can confirm that we had some pretty amazing music teachers and they are probably to most supportive music teachers I have ever had. Yeah I would say they were an influential factor.” Sam had a similar response by saying, “There are so many. My biggest influence was my grade 8 teacher and I say that because believe it or not I was a shy kid and when I had him as a teacher something in me snapped and I became loud and out going. He told be to push boundaries. My grade 8 teacher was always supportive with what I did and he told me to keep doing what you love. I think about him all the time and I have given him a formal letter telling him how much he has affected me.” It is really powerful to see how much teachers affect students and it really shows how careful you should be when teaching because you can either make a huge difference in a student’s life or you could be no help to them and cause destruction.
After getting to know more about their background with music and how it has affected their lives I wanted to go in deeper with how they felt in their music class or even any academic class for the matter. I was then curious to know whether they had taken private lessons and whether or not they felt like they had an advantage or felt like they were at a disadvantage because of it. Emily and Jessica shared the same response of having private instruction and feeling as though they had more of an advantage in class because they had a better understanding with music theory material while others struggled. Sam, however, did not receive private instruction and felt accordingly, “It is kind of different because we all play different instruments. My teacher was super biased and they did get a lot of solos but that was because they were super talented and had the ability to do so while students who just picked up the instrument wouldn’t. Therefore it’s a bias but it is a validated bias. However, I never felt that I was less then them.” I was interesting to know that they felt like there was an advantage but they didn’t feel like they were at a disadvantage. I was then curious to know their thoughts on creativity and what it looked like, how it was used in the classroom, and if there were any limitations. The responses seemed to focus towards creativity having to do with composition and thinking outside of the box. Emily saw creativity in terms of the arts discipline being almost the definition of creativity in its self, “We had a math project where we took a sinusoidal function and drew it into a scene. I think in some settings creativity is limited because in as math class you can’t just go and make up your own formulas.” Emily’s thoughts on creativity intrigued me because they were more focused on the specifics of creativity such as art and music being the definition of creativity themselves. Jessica and Sam had a different perspective of creativity by saying in more general terms, thinking outside the box. Jessica had a really interesting point to limitations with creativity saying, “It really depends on your teacher because sometimes they are really strict and only want you to think one way and stay within certain guidelines. However, I haven’t found that to be a problem that I have as all my teachers and professors have given me the liberty to do things on my own.” Sam also had an interesting point in terms of stepping outside of the box saying, “One of my best friends in high school would never understand the ways our science teacher would teach something. He would step outside of his safety box, that being our teacher, and he would find a different way to do it that made more sense to him.” I found the term safety box an interesting comparison to a teacher so I asked Sam to dwell on that a bit and explain why she thought that was a regular occurrence to which she replied, “Growing up, your parents were always the one there and they are your safety net to fall back on. The teacher is the same way because teachers are the figure of learning and they are there to help you so you become reliant on them. Students tend to look at the worksheet and give up and ask the teacher for help before they really try to solve the problem. People automatically want help without really trying to push themselves and step out of their comfort zone. Parents had a harder childhood and they don’t want their child to have that so they are more protective and therefore make the child more reliant on them.” Sam and Jessica’s perspectives on limitations within creativity were though provoking because it really makes you question what the relationship is between the student and teacher. Is the teacher more of an authoritative figure? Or perhaps is the teacher more of a guide? The idea of building ones musical identity has intrigued me for some time so I asked them whether they felt like their musical identity had strengthened or weakened to which they all responded with strengthened. The response as to why they thought that varied from learning to create their own music, improvement, and confidence. It was interesting to get to understand what each person thought a musical identity entailed and how they saw their progress in each area.
After getting to understand how their classes functioned and how it made each person feel, I wanted to target the end product of how they felt overall after graduating simply by asking if they felt satisfied with their education. Emily and Jessica both shared a strong opinion of being really satisfied with their music education and somewhat satisfied in other academics. When asked to provide advice to a past teacher Jessica said, “Adapt your teaching to the class not the class to your teaching” which I found to be very true and helpful advice that an educator should know based on past experiences. Sam’s opinion on he satisfaction with her education was different as she said, “ I went to a very small school with zero budget so no. I got the minimal which they could afford which is understandable because it is what they could afford. If I had gone to a bigger school I would have gotten more quality but I was still able to apply here [Western University for Visual Art] and get in. Its not that I got a lack of education just some of it was self-taught. The problem with a low-income school is that the teachers I had were teaching subjects that they weren’t qualified for. However, it was still enough to get me where I am now, I just had to work a little harder.” Low-income schools do seem to set a limitation with ones learning so it should be important to educators to find a way around that. Sam mentioned that she didn’t get the quality of learning she wanted so I was curious as to whether she thought quality or quantity was more important in education to which she responded, “I think I would want quality but I would still want a bit of quantity.” It was interesting to know that Sam preferred quality to quantity but at the same time wanted both. I was then curious to know if they had gained any lessons since graduation from the program to which Jessica replied, “Ask questions when you need to and you won’t be ridiculed for them and that it’s a community. Mr. Hudspith would always say know your tendencies and that is something that will always stick with me.” Emily had a similar response saying, “It gave me a passion. Even though I am studying science, it is something that I always come back to. Basically don’t give up music and leave it behind.” It would be humbling to an educator that a student gained this experience with them and these outcomes should be the reason for as to why you teach. Since all three had chosen a different path other than music I then wanted to know how music was still apart of their daily lives and if they still had the chance to play. Jessica expressed that she didn’t have much chance to participate in music anymore since the courses are restricted from her but she says she has access to a piano and plays on that still. She also tries to compose new music as well. Emily expressed that she still participates in music at Guelph, as she is part of the Symphonic Band there and uses breaks in between studying to practice for enjoyment. Sam expressed that she listens to music daily and uses music to get inspired in her artwork. She wishes that she had continued with music by joining an ensemble. I was intrigued with how Sam uses music to get inspired with her artwork so I asked her if she thought teaching with collaborations between the different arts disciplines was a good idea to which she responded strongly, “Yes, I didn’t appreciate the other art mediums as much until I experienced them and it gave me a different perspective.” It is good to know that music still is an influence in their daily lives despite some limitations. Lastly I asked them whether they thought if it is important to start learning music at a young age to which they all responded strongly with yes.
Benjamin McClelland is a grade 8 student at O.M. Mackillop Public School. He is the youngest of my siblings who has gotten the chance to be a part of a music class such as myself. Benjamin started taking music classes in grade 6 and chose the saxophone because he wanted to play a different instrument than his siblings [clarinet and trumpet] and decided he liked the sound of the instrument.
To start the conversation I asked if he planned on taking music in high school to which he responded yes. With that in mind, I asked if there was something he looked forward to learning in high school that he wasn’t learning in elementary school to which he responded, “Right now we don’t have a good music class because the teacher doesn’t know how to teach instrumental. Therefore we don’t have an ensemble and I am looking forward to being a part of an ensemble. Also maybe a little more music history. I want to learn where music came from and why we still use it today.” It is good to know that despite the music class being, in his words, not good that he looks forward to the future and still plans on participating in music. I was then curious to know how the elementary school music classes worked because they are much different in comparison to high schools. He responded, “So what we will do is we go to class and sometimes there is a specific order of where to sit and sometimes it is random. Since we are doing bucket drumming right now, we sit with a partner because we don’t have enough buckets and she will hand out sticks. We will then start with a warm-up and then we would work on a piece for the rest of the time.” The idea of sometimes sitting in a specific order but then sometimes sitting randomly intrigues me because I wonder if the intentions of sitting randomly is so that you listen to another rhythm that isn’t your own. I was then curious to know the levels of creativity in the classroom so I asked him whether they had chances to be creative and what it looked like. Benjamin responded by saying, “ Sometimes yes but not a lot, she has given us a project where we got to make up our own rhythm and present it to the class. I think creativity looks like not only just getting to choose what you want to do but also making up your own rhythms and being a leader. Creativity is important because if you don’t have it then the class will the boring. Also if you want to become a composer or anything you won’t have that creativity already in you.” When he said leader it took me a second to understand what he was getting at but it is true. Being creative is in a sense being a leader by taking initiative to create something that is yours. I was then curious to know if he took private lessons and whether he thought he had an advantage in school because of it. His response was simply, “Yeah I think it helps. My class right now doesn’t teach instrumental but in my lessons I am learning music that is being taught in high school. Therefore I feel more prepared for high school now since I am learning that material.” My idea of private instruction giving a student an advantage was more concentrated towards the current class but it was interesting to know that my brother thought the advantage was more related to the future. Going back to the idea of his music class not being up to his standards I asked what was different to the music class since last year to which he said, “She is trying to bring new stuff such as ukulele and bucket drumming. Since we haven’t done much drumming in past years it put us into a different field, which was more percussion.” Despite the change it is good that they are at least experiencing a new perspective of music. Hearing about the change I wanted to know his opinion on it, to which he responded, “I kind of prefer instrumental music because last year I was learning my own instrument but I was still learning a little about other instruments as well. A lot of people in my class like the change because they thought instrumental music was hard.” Benjamin mentioned to me the way the room was set up when they had worked on instruments and mentioned how the ensemble was somewhat connected but somewhat not. Therefore I asked him if an ensemble should be connected to which he replied, “I think so, normally the saxophones, clarinets, and flutes might play similar parts. I feel like if the woodwinds sit more closer together then they get to listen to each other and here the same part and how they sound and how you should sound.” I was shocked that he made that connection with little ensemble experience. Lastly, I asked him whether music should start earlier than grade 6 to which he responded, “Yes like maybe in grade 4 or 5 because if you start in kindergarten they won’t understand it but they will in grade 4 or 5. If you start learning in grade 4 and 5 you will have a better understanding by grade 6 where you start to learn instruments.”
The way elementary and high school music educations are structured are very different but through this interview I have come to realize that despite this difference the students have quite similar opinions. I have also come to realize how important the role a teacher has when it comes to teaching. Influential teachers really do change the way a student views that subject and the teacher themselves. Teachers are powerful role models and if applied incorrectly could harm the student.
To start off the conversation, I was curious to know how their music journey started and how it progressed to where they are today. The responses I received were sporadic as some were first exposed to music in elementary school and others were forced to start taking piano lessons at a young age. However, Jessica responded by saying, “It started when I was about two and my great grandmother used to teach me piano. When I was about six or seven I started taking piano lessons and then in school I joined the band and played saxophone up until grade 10. Then I switched schools to Alexander Mackenzie and I then picked up the cello and from there started the bass.” Sam had a similar story in which she changed around instruments as well from piano to bass clarinet to participating in musical theatre productions. I was then curious to know why they had switched instruments to which Jessica replied, “I have always wanted to play the cello there is just something about it that resonates I guess. When I came to Alexander Mackenzie I realized they had a strings program and I asked our teacher if I could try it out and I just fell in love with it.” Sam also switched instruments and disciplines (from instrumental music to musical theatre) so when asked the same question she replied, “I started playing bass clarinet in grade 8 and fell in love with that instrument and shortly after I quit piano because it wasn’t for me. My dad always sings in the kitchen when he is cooking and stuff so I always grew up with him singing. When I was going into Grade 9 I was playing video games with my friend Chris on Skype and was playing music and singing. He then asked me if I wanted to singing for his piano recital and I was like sure. That was the first time I had performed in front of anyone and it was horrible but I just loved performing. Musical theatre was a way for me to perform and have a spotlight because in a band you don’t have that spotlight.” The idea of the correlation between a spotlight and band intrigued me so I asked Sam to dwell on that a bit and explain why she thought that was an occurrence to which she replied, “It is just because there are so many and when you play together people don’t pick out the different instruments and their parts. I feel like I get more of a spotlight when I am the only one on the stage singing a solo with a literal spotlight on me rather than when I am in a band playing the bass line to Africa by Toto.” I had never considered the idea of a spotlight in correlation with an ensemble so it was interesting to hear Sam’s thoughts on that. After learning about their passion for music and the journey they took with that passion I was curious to know why they had chosen a different path. They all had various answers some including that music was a passionate hobby but not their true passion, others saying that they weren’t at the level that the program required, and others saying mainly the audition process but they always knew that they wanted to go into a different discipline. It was very interesting to know the limitations of what steered people who had a passion for music away from pursuing it. I found it especially interesting hearing that Jessica wanted to pursue music but felt restricted because she wasn’t at the piano level that the program wanted. Through private conversations with her, she has expressed her desire to take music courses at her current university but they are restricted to those who are in the music program. I was then curious to know if any of them were interested in pursuing education to which I found that Emily and Sam had some interest in teaching within the discipline that they are currently studying. I was curious to know whether they had an influential teacher that influenced them to consider pursuing education to which Emily replied, “We have had many of the same teachers throughout high school. You can confirm that we had some pretty amazing music teachers and they are probably to most supportive music teachers I have ever had. Yeah I would say they were an influential factor.” Sam had a similar response by saying, “There are so many. My biggest influence was my grade 8 teacher and I say that because believe it or not I was a shy kid and when I had him as a teacher something in me snapped and I became loud and out going. He told be to push boundaries. My grade 8 teacher was always supportive with what I did and he told me to keep doing what you love. I think about him all the time and I have given him a formal letter telling him how much he has affected me.” It is really powerful to see how much teachers affect students and it really shows how careful you should be when teaching because you can either make a huge difference in a student’s life or you could be no help to them and cause destruction.
After getting to know more about their background with music and how it has affected their lives I wanted to go in deeper with how they felt in their music class or even any academic class for the matter. I was then curious to know whether they had taken private lessons and whether or not they felt like they had an advantage or felt like they were at a disadvantage because of it. Emily and Jessica shared the same response of having private instruction and feeling as though they had more of an advantage in class because they had a better understanding with music theory material while others struggled. Sam, however, did not receive private instruction and felt accordingly, “It is kind of different because we all play different instruments. My teacher was super biased and they did get a lot of solos but that was because they were super talented and had the ability to do so while students who just picked up the instrument wouldn’t. Therefore it’s a bias but it is a validated bias. However, I never felt that I was less then them.” I was interesting to know that they felt like there was an advantage but they didn’t feel like they were at a disadvantage. I was then curious to know their thoughts on creativity and what it looked like, how it was used in the classroom, and if there were any limitations. The responses seemed to focus towards creativity having to do with composition and thinking outside of the box. Emily saw creativity in terms of the arts discipline being almost the definition of creativity in its self, “We had a math project where we took a sinusoidal function and drew it into a scene. I think in some settings creativity is limited because in as math class you can’t just go and make up your own formulas.” Emily’s thoughts on creativity intrigued me because they were more focused on the specifics of creativity such as art and music being the definition of creativity themselves. Jessica and Sam had a different perspective of creativity by saying in more general terms, thinking outside the box. Jessica had a really interesting point to limitations with creativity saying, “It really depends on your teacher because sometimes they are really strict and only want you to think one way and stay within certain guidelines. However, I haven’t found that to be a problem that I have as all my teachers and professors have given me the liberty to do things on my own.” Sam also had an interesting point in terms of stepping outside of the box saying, “One of my best friends in high school would never understand the ways our science teacher would teach something. He would step outside of his safety box, that being our teacher, and he would find a different way to do it that made more sense to him.” I found the term safety box an interesting comparison to a teacher so I asked Sam to dwell on that a bit and explain why she thought that was a regular occurrence to which she replied, “Growing up, your parents were always the one there and they are your safety net to fall back on. The teacher is the same way because teachers are the figure of learning and they are there to help you so you become reliant on them. Students tend to look at the worksheet and give up and ask the teacher for help before they really try to solve the problem. People automatically want help without really trying to push themselves and step out of their comfort zone. Parents had a harder childhood and they don’t want their child to have that so they are more protective and therefore make the child more reliant on them.” Sam and Jessica’s perspectives on limitations within creativity were though provoking because it really makes you question what the relationship is between the student and teacher. Is the teacher more of an authoritative figure? Or perhaps is the teacher more of a guide? The idea of building ones musical identity has intrigued me for some time so I asked them whether they felt like their musical identity had strengthened or weakened to which they all responded with strengthened. The response as to why they thought that varied from learning to create their own music, improvement, and confidence. It was interesting to get to understand what each person thought a musical identity entailed and how they saw their progress in each area.
After getting to understand how their classes functioned and how it made each person feel, I wanted to target the end product of how they felt overall after graduating simply by asking if they felt satisfied with their education. Emily and Jessica both shared a strong opinion of being really satisfied with their music education and somewhat satisfied in other academics. When asked to provide advice to a past teacher Jessica said, “Adapt your teaching to the class not the class to your teaching” which I found to be very true and helpful advice that an educator should know based on past experiences. Sam’s opinion on he satisfaction with her education was different as she said, “ I went to a very small school with zero budget so no. I got the minimal which they could afford which is understandable because it is what they could afford. If I had gone to a bigger school I would have gotten more quality but I was still able to apply here [Western University for Visual Art] and get in. Its not that I got a lack of education just some of it was self-taught. The problem with a low-income school is that the teachers I had were teaching subjects that they weren’t qualified for. However, it was still enough to get me where I am now, I just had to work a little harder.” Low-income schools do seem to set a limitation with ones learning so it should be important to educators to find a way around that. Sam mentioned that she didn’t get the quality of learning she wanted so I was curious as to whether she thought quality or quantity was more important in education to which she responded, “I think I would want quality but I would still want a bit of quantity.” It was interesting to know that Sam preferred quality to quantity but at the same time wanted both. I was then curious to know if they had gained any lessons since graduation from the program to which Jessica replied, “Ask questions when you need to and you won’t be ridiculed for them and that it’s a community. Mr. Hudspith would always say know your tendencies and that is something that will always stick with me.” Emily had a similar response saying, “It gave me a passion. Even though I am studying science, it is something that I always come back to. Basically don’t give up music and leave it behind.” It would be humbling to an educator that a student gained this experience with them and these outcomes should be the reason for as to why you teach. Since all three had chosen a different path other than music I then wanted to know how music was still apart of their daily lives and if they still had the chance to play. Jessica expressed that she didn’t have much chance to participate in music anymore since the courses are restricted from her but she says she has access to a piano and plays on that still. She also tries to compose new music as well. Emily expressed that she still participates in music at Guelph, as she is part of the Symphonic Band there and uses breaks in between studying to practice for enjoyment. Sam expressed that she listens to music daily and uses music to get inspired in her artwork. She wishes that she had continued with music by joining an ensemble. I was intrigued with how Sam uses music to get inspired with her artwork so I asked her if she thought teaching with collaborations between the different arts disciplines was a good idea to which she responded strongly, “Yes, I didn’t appreciate the other art mediums as much until I experienced them and it gave me a different perspective.” It is good to know that music still is an influence in their daily lives despite some limitations. Lastly I asked them whether they thought if it is important to start learning music at a young age to which they all responded strongly with yes.
Benjamin McClelland is a grade 8 student at O.M. Mackillop Public School. He is the youngest of my siblings who has gotten the chance to be a part of a music class such as myself. Benjamin started taking music classes in grade 6 and chose the saxophone because he wanted to play a different instrument than his siblings [clarinet and trumpet] and decided he liked the sound of the instrument.
To start the conversation I asked if he planned on taking music in high school to which he responded yes. With that in mind, I asked if there was something he looked forward to learning in high school that he wasn’t learning in elementary school to which he responded, “Right now we don’t have a good music class because the teacher doesn’t know how to teach instrumental. Therefore we don’t have an ensemble and I am looking forward to being a part of an ensemble. Also maybe a little more music history. I want to learn where music came from and why we still use it today.” It is good to know that despite the music class being, in his words, not good that he looks forward to the future and still plans on participating in music. I was then curious to know how the elementary school music classes worked because they are much different in comparison to high schools. He responded, “So what we will do is we go to class and sometimes there is a specific order of where to sit and sometimes it is random. Since we are doing bucket drumming right now, we sit with a partner because we don’t have enough buckets and she will hand out sticks. We will then start with a warm-up and then we would work on a piece for the rest of the time.” The idea of sometimes sitting in a specific order but then sometimes sitting randomly intrigues me because I wonder if the intentions of sitting randomly is so that you listen to another rhythm that isn’t your own. I was then curious to know the levels of creativity in the classroom so I asked him whether they had chances to be creative and what it looked like. Benjamin responded by saying, “ Sometimes yes but not a lot, she has given us a project where we got to make up our own rhythm and present it to the class. I think creativity looks like not only just getting to choose what you want to do but also making up your own rhythms and being a leader. Creativity is important because if you don’t have it then the class will the boring. Also if you want to become a composer or anything you won’t have that creativity already in you.” When he said leader it took me a second to understand what he was getting at but it is true. Being creative is in a sense being a leader by taking initiative to create something that is yours. I was then curious to know if he took private lessons and whether he thought he had an advantage in school because of it. His response was simply, “Yeah I think it helps. My class right now doesn’t teach instrumental but in my lessons I am learning music that is being taught in high school. Therefore I feel more prepared for high school now since I am learning that material.” My idea of private instruction giving a student an advantage was more concentrated towards the current class but it was interesting to know that my brother thought the advantage was more related to the future. Going back to the idea of his music class not being up to his standards I asked what was different to the music class since last year to which he said, “She is trying to bring new stuff such as ukulele and bucket drumming. Since we haven’t done much drumming in past years it put us into a different field, which was more percussion.” Despite the change it is good that they are at least experiencing a new perspective of music. Hearing about the change I wanted to know his opinion on it, to which he responded, “I kind of prefer instrumental music because last year I was learning my own instrument but I was still learning a little about other instruments as well. A lot of people in my class like the change because they thought instrumental music was hard.” Benjamin mentioned to me the way the room was set up when they had worked on instruments and mentioned how the ensemble was somewhat connected but somewhat not. Therefore I asked him if an ensemble should be connected to which he replied, “I think so, normally the saxophones, clarinets, and flutes might play similar parts. I feel like if the woodwinds sit more closer together then they get to listen to each other and here the same part and how they sound and how you should sound.” I was shocked that he made that connection with little ensemble experience. Lastly, I asked him whether music should start earlier than grade 6 to which he responded, “Yes like maybe in grade 4 or 5 because if you start in kindergarten they won’t understand it but they will in grade 4 or 5. If you start learning in grade 4 and 5 you will have a better understanding by grade 6 where you start to learn instruments.”
The way elementary and high school music educations are structured are very different but through this interview I have come to realize that despite this difference the students have quite similar opinions. I have also come to realize how important the role a teacher has when it comes to teaching. Influential teachers really do change the way a student views that subject and the teacher themselves. Teachers are powerful role models and if applied incorrectly could harm the student.